Interview with Marten Hagström from Meshuggah by Mike Meier

The first question is, obviously, what's been going on in the last four years? It's been a while since the last album.
There's a lot been going on, actually, but nothing much had to do with playing music. We've been doing a lot of other stuff - we released Chaosphere in late 98 and then we went on the road with Slayer in the US. And then we came back and we wanted to either keep touring or do a new full length album, but Nuclear Blast thought it would be a better idea to release something right away. So they asked us to do the "Rare Trax" thing, and we thought that wouldn't take more than a month or so to put together. But it turned out that finding all those old demos and shit and remastering it took like six months or something like that. And after that we got our business stuff together and organized. We bought a studio together with Clawfinger here in Stockholm and did a bunch of other stuff,so we really didn't start writing and preparing for the album until January of this year.
You just mentioned Clawfinger - are you friends with those guys? Because one of the Clawfinger guys recorded the live video on "Rare Trax", right?
Yeah, exactly. He was doing that and he was doing lights for us at the time. They were doing nothing much back then and having some time off, so he went on the road with us. Yeah, we've been friends for a bunch of years, actually, and we've been talking about getting a studio for years and they'd been thinking the same thing so we thought, why don't we just hook up and see what we can do, and it worked out great.
The first thing I noticed when I saw the finished version of the new album was you didn't print the lyrics this time. Is there a particular reason for that?
Yeah, it has to do a little bit with everything that has to do with the album. You know, if you pick up the album, there's pretty much nothing on there. And that's, you know, kind of the thought behind it. Actually there is lyrics, but they're on the CD-Rom. So if you wanna check out the lyrics...
Oh, the enhanced track, right, I remember.
So that's why. And also, because we know that people want to check out the lyrics we're gonna put them up on the web page when the new design is finished. There's this guy just now sitting here in Sweden and finishing it up.
Okay. So basically it was kind of a layout thing because when you unfold the thing it's just black on the inside, and that was the point.
Yeah, exactly. We felt that on the previous albums we've gone out of our way to include as much info and as much artwork as possible and we really felt that this time around we wanted the music to speak for itself.
And just did the opposite and basically put "Nothing" on there.
Exactly.
So, let's talk about the music then. How would you say Nothing is different from Chaosphere?
Well, I think it's pretty obvious that it's a slower album. And we wanted it that way. It's not like we really sat down and felt, hey, we need to have a slow album this time because Chaosphere was so intense. But we just felt that on Chaosphere we pretty much covered that ground so much that it would be useless to do an exact same approach to this album. We wanted to explore a new way of the Meshuggah sound. So we knew that we were looking for a new sound and when we started using the 8-string guitars, because the entire album is recorded on 8 string guitars, we found the output we wanted and also, in order to get the point across to the listeners, we needed to slow it down a bit.
Well, the thing about getting the point across, I was actually just gonna ask you about that, is what I think really makes it different is that this time, the first time you listen to it, it actually sounds simple. Because it's all slow and there seems to be a straight groove to everything. Then when you listen to it a couple times you start realizing that it's actually more complex than Chaosphere was. It's just slower. Did you do that on purpose, or did that just sort of happen?
It just sort of happened, actually. And it's funny that you're pointing that out because not everyone picks that up. You know, to many people, just because it's in a slower tempo it's automatically more accessible and therefore it must be simpler. But like you said, when you really start listening to it, and this is something we discovered now rehearsing the songs, it's a very complex album to get your head around. So I wouldn't say it was conscious, but in a way we knew that it was gonna come out that way because when we started writing the songs we instinctively felt that we needed not only to have the new sound with the 8 string guitars, we needed to have a different approach, especially when it comes to the guitar work. Because playing an 8 string guitar, we're almost pretty much playing the bass, in a way, we're just playing single strings. And that was a new challenge in many ways. So yeah, it was both, you know, natural and conscious.
Well, to be honest with you, since you just mentioned that, it took me about ten spins to figure that out. I wrote the review, and I was just about ready to trash it for being too simple and too accessible.
Yeah, in a way it is direct. So I understand where that's coming from. But like you said, we felt that this is an album, you know... our favorite albums are always albums that grow. The longer you listen to it, the more you get. And that's pretty much something we wanted to achieve on this album: that people pick it up and say, hey, okay, well, this is pretty cool, and then when you listen to it again and again more things start to surface. So that's pretty much our whole idea with this album.
Yeah, well, if that was the goal, I'd say you've definitely achieved that.
I think every one of our albums sounds different. I mean, it's not only us doing this of course, but some bands just go for whatever is the direct approach to do, but we always want it to be a challenge for ourselves too, you know, so that we think it's interesting and cool.
So, since you're so much focused on trying to develop as a band, how do you feel about other bands right now trying sound the same as you?
Well... it's flattering, you know, because when you're in a band, you always want to inspire people, so if people are inspired by what we do then that's of course great. It would be stupid to say that you don't want to be copied cause everyone gets copied every once in a while and every band copies someone one way or another, even though it might be on an unconscious level. But I want to think of us a band that tries to go our own way and if that way raises the interest of other bands, that's cool.
So is that maybe a reason why you really tried to change things around with "Nothing" now? Because there's so many bands trying to sound like Meshuggah now, and what I feel is you did is you took the one part of your music that nobody has actually managed to copy so far, which is those slow riffs, and emphasized that because that's what still makes you different from all those other bands.
Yeah, in a way I think you're right. I don't think that we thought of it that way when we wrote it but I think that's one of the reasons. Because when you are writing music you feel that if you've done something that people are already picking up there's no use continuing doing that, you don't want to cover the same ground twice. I mean, that's alright for AC/DC, but we're a different band. We always want it to be a challenge. I wouldn't like to say that we've changed everything around because we still want to keep our identity, but we want to stay interesting to ourselves, so we don't feel that we're doing the same thing over and over again.
How does the songwriting process work then? Do you write songs together or how does that work?
90% of the time it's me or Fredrik sitting at home, actually. I'll have an idea, and I work with it, I record it on the computer, I program some drums, and put together the outline of the song so that I can get it across to the guys in the band. I put as much as I can together and then we send it to each other via mp3. We're tossing ideas at each other all the time and then when we feel that we have enough material that everybody is satisfied with, we get together and try to rearrange things and finish up the songs. So it's not the ordinary "let's go rehearse and make some songs" way.
Really sort of constructing things at home by yourself.
Pretty much. And that's also something really... people always seem to tend to think that that's a weird thing. And well - to most it might be. But to us it's actually something that inspires us to keep going. I might sit at home at home for two weeks and not have a single even remotely good idea. Then Fredrik calls me up and says "Hey, look what I sent you, I finished half a song." And I play it, and I'm like "Yeah, shit, this is really cool", and then I want to make something on my own.
Actually I don't find that weird at all because I play in a band myself and that's exactly how we work.
You do? That's cool, man, because so many bands don't. It's like a rule that you have to jam and drink a couple of beers, and I mean... everybody has to do what's best for them, but this works for us, and apparently for you guys too, so that's cool.
I dunno, to me that's how you keep things challenging, because if you really figure the riffs out by yourself at home, that's how come up with the things that end up being hard to play for you. Things that just come together when you're jamming are always easy to play and those are the songs you get sick of after two weeks, right?
Exactly. That's pretty much what we feel too, so that's right.
But... Fredrik and you come up with the drum tracks?
Well, yeah. One thing was different this time though, I should mention this - on this album, Thomas and me also worked together on a couple of songs. But most of the time we program the drums and then Thomas will of course change some fills, but the basic drum tracks are done by us and then he has to learn them.
And you never get in fights over that? Because I play the drums and I would probably kill you guys for making me play stuff like that.
It's not like he gets really pissed off, but sometimes it's like, you know... "Hey guys... gimme a break." But most of the time he's cool. Because he sees it as a challenge. So if something's sounding really challenging he'll say "Alright, I'll try to get it down, if it doesn't work, fuck you." But he'll always try.
As far as your musical style goes, it seems to me that there's this really sudden break with None from Contradictions Collapse, and that's sort of where what you'd think of as the Meshuggah style started. What happened there?
Well, I joined the band, for one thing. And I think when I joined the band... it's not that I made a lot of difference, but I think when I joined the band they were realizing that they were happy with having an album out, but it wasn't really that unique. So I think they really wanted me to add to the song writing and they really wanted to find a new way of expressing themselves. And I felt that I contributed a little bit to that and then we just moved on from there. We also discovered the distorted bass. That was what happened on None. But then I think that we probably started to see... in a haze, sort of, we started to see the outline of what we were gonna become, style-wise.
Well enough about the music, then. What's gonna happen next, are you gonna tour anytime soon?
Yeah, we're actually only home for a couple of weeks now. We just came back from the Ozzfest in the US and we're gonna fly back to the US on October 2nd, we're going out for 8 weeks opening up for Tool. That should be good, and then we're coming back in late November or early December and we're gonna have a couple of weeks off, because we've been working nonstop since January. So we're gonna have a little bit of time off and then we're doing a European tour.
You're touring the States twice in a row? Are you successful in the States? I dunno, you sound very European to me, I can't imagine...
Yeah, that's the weird thing! We go over way, way better over there! I don't know why. Don't ask me why. I mean, we are on Nuclear Blast, and in the US, they're a really, really small label. Much smaller than they are in Europe. So it was really weird when we released the Nothing album on the 6th of August there and it hit the Billboard.
Speaking of touring, I saw that video you included on "Rare Trax" for "New Millenium Cyanide Christ." Uh... what the hell happened there?
Hehe. That was pretty funny. We were on the Slayer tour at the time. And we had to cancel one gig because Thomas' drum kit didn't fit the stage. And we thought, well, okay, uh... what the fuck should we do? And we're like, okay, we have a video camera, so why don't we just fuck around with it, and we recorded that video for ourselves. For fun. We edited it and when Nuclear Blast asked us to do the "Rare Trax" thing we thought, wouldn't it be cool to edit it together and cut it and everything and just see if the video turns out alright. And we thought it was so hilarious that we just decided to put it on there.
I definitely laughed my ass off...
Yeah, that's the point, it's so fucking ludicrous and out there. And the thing is, Nuclear Blast didn't think everybody would get the joke. You know? But I'm like... dude, man, everybody's gonna laugh when they see that one. They're gonna know that it's not serious.
How do you mean, people wouldn't get the joke?
Ahh, I don't know, ask the Germans! We were like, everybody's gonna get the joke! How can you possibly think that they won't? And they said, [in retard voice] "I don't think they will." And then when it came out and everybody thought it was so funny and started writing us about it, we were like, see? What did we tell you?
What, they thought people would see this as an attempt at a serious video that turned out totally unprofessional?
Yeah, that's what they thought, and we were like, dude, you gotta get your shit together, you know, it's so obvious.
He's singing into a pencil, for God's sake...
Exactly! I mean, how could anybody misinterpret that? But you know... it's... you know...
Label people.
Yeah, label people, yeah.
So did you ever think about pitching the video to MTV or any of the other stations?
Yeah, we asked them to, but, uh... they didn't want to.
Hahaha. That's the only video you ever made, right?
We actually recorded a couple of videos way back, but they sucked, and one of them was also kind of a joke. Since we didn't have the money, and we felt that if you don't have the budget and can't get your vision across, you might as well not do it altogether. But this time around we're doing a video. There's this guy in Germany putting it together right now, but it has very little to do with us, we just get to review it and we say what we think about it, but it's not like we're doing video shoots or anything. It's gonna be really weird, I think, and it's gonna be really good, too. It's of the second track, "Rational Gaze."
It's definitely time to do that now if you're that big in the States, I think.
And also, we need to get away from the States. Because we could tour there until the end of the next year. We already turned down three tours so we can come to Europe. We want to do Europe because we need to. And we need to have a little bit of time off. So the video is kind of a way to keep Meshuggah fresh without being on the road.
What was Ozzfest like, anyway? That seems to me like a really commercial type thing.
It is. And being European, coming over to the United States and being part of such a big tour was weird, but for us it's all good because we had such a great reception from the crowd and played in a good spot and everything was good.
I'm pretty much through, any final words, any bands you need to plug, anything I forgot to ask you that's important?
Well... bands you need to plug are already big. But there's one thing I'd love for everybody to check out, especially you as a drummer. This is not a metal band, not even close. This is a friend of Aphex Twin's, you know what that is?
I have several Aphex Twin albums, I love Aphex Twin.
Do you have Squarepusher? Because Tool actually turned us on to Squarepusher. They told us to check him out, so we did, and that's pretty much all we listen to in the bus right now.
What, the newer stuff with the hand played instruments? Because he used to do a lot more computer oriented stuff a couple years ago.
Both, actually. I think the last album we heard was Go Plastic, and that's what, two years old or something?
Yeah, he's been around for many years. I think the last album I bought was called "Hard Normal Daddy", and that was half computers and half real instruments.
Yeah, I've got that one, but you should check out the two that came later. Because "Hard Normal Daddy" kinda sounds like like the lead motif from some old, detective story.
Hahaha, yeah, exactly.
I mean, that's a nice album. But you should check out Go Plastic cuz that's way, way, way more freaky.
Yeah, I've heard a little stuff off of those but I just never got around to listening to them, but our bass player has them, I'll borrow 'em from him them.
Yeah, please do, cuz it's really fucking good!
Will do. Well that's it, thanks for taking the time and best of luck with the tour and everything.
Yeah well, nice talking to you too, take care man.
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